{"id":6508,"date":"2023-06-19T05:16:48","date_gmt":"2023-06-19T03:16:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/"},"modified":"2023-06-19T05:16:48","modified_gmt":"2023-06-19T03:16:48","slug":"webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law","status":"publish","type":"video","link":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/","title":{"rendered":"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>Debate moderated by<\/strong>: Pascal Perri, economist and founder of Yes to innovation!<\/p>\n<h2>Speakers:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Laurent Cappelletti<\/strong>, Professor at CNAM, Director at the ISEOR Institute of Socio-Economics, Institut Sapiens expert<\/li>\n<li><strong>Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent<\/strong>, former executive at Elf Aquitaine and Gaz de France, and specialist in energy issues<\/li>\n<li><strong>Christian Harbulot<\/strong>, French strategist specializing in economic intelligence, Director of the School of Economic Warfare<\/li>\n<li><strong>Sylvain Pelletreau<\/strong>, partner at Richelieu Avocats, a firm specializing in environmental law<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Context:<\/h2>\n<p>Environmental law is a highly topical issue: \u201cclimate\u201d laws, the offence of ecocide, judicial powers granted to the French Office for Biodiversity (OFB), protection for whistleblowers, environmental protests\u2026 At the same time, the proliferation of legislative and regulatory texts is seen as an obstacle and an unjustified constraint by many economic stakeholders.<\/p>\n<p>Senator Laurent Duplomb sums up the situation perfectly when commenting on his report on the competitiveness of \u201cFarm France\u201d and highlighting the long decline of our agriculture. Farmers today are experiencing \u201cunbearable psychological pressure\u201d. Regulatory pressure is one of the main causes.  <\/p>\n<p>According to Pascal Perri, the issue of environmental law raises two questions: are we witnessing a drift in environmental law? And how can environmental concerns, the protection of environmental law, and growth be reconciled? In other words, can we decouple growth in harm from growth itself?  <\/p>\n<h2>Key takeaways:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>An overproduction of standards\u2014seen as \u201cperformance indicators\u201d for policymakers, but with harmful effects on businesses and regions.<\/li>\n<li>Environmental law in the hands of the environmental movement, alongside a withdrawal of the industrial world. As a result, the balance of the three pillars\u2014environmental, social and economic\u2014essential to ensuring sound legislation, is being undermined. <\/li>\n<li>Is a change of course and a return to common sense possible, with crises in the energy and agricultural\/agri-food sectors bringing back the notion of \u201cvital needs\u201d?<\/li>\n<li>A necessary simplification of the regulatory framework, with a return of technical authority (dogmatism vs pragmatism).<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Summary of the discussions<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Regulatory production and political effectiveness: when standards become the politician\u2019s \u201cperformance indicator\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In France, we are ahead of our neighbours in terms of regulatory production. However, not all enacted laws produce the expected effects. \u201cA legislative corpus that remains in limbo,\u201d Pascal Perri notes.  <\/p>\n<p>Sylvain Pelletreau, an environmental law attorney, recalls that environmental law must be a compromise between the use of nature and the protection of nature. \u201cAnd if we push this definition further, we can say that environmental law is a permanent oxymoron: through this relationship between use and protection, through the question of time\u2014short political time and the long time of transition\u2014but also because the standard must at the same time be a tool for competitiveness.\u201d And to make it a tool for competitiveness, he says, the rule must be anticipated. <\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201c<em>We must not confuse haste with transition<\/em>.\u201d, Sylvain Pelletreau.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>\u201cEnvironmental law must only be considered through the lens of sustainable development, which rests on three pillars: environmental, social and economic. Forgetting one of the three pillars means producing a flawed law,\u201d explains Sylvain Pelletreau.<\/p>\n<p>Regions are experiencing this as well. In environmental law, failing to take account of differences and specificities between regions leads to absurd situations. \u201cThis uncontrolled regulatory production raises several problems: it does not take account of the social aspect or the economic aspect\u2014it is radical environmentalism, Pascal Perri adds\u2014it is not part of a transition perspective and is not adaptable depending on the context. It also has a cost for businesses and regions (visible and hidden costs).\u201d Laurent Cappelletti, CNAM professor    <\/p>\n<p>LEZs (low-emission zones), ZAN (net zero land take), energy-inefficient homes\u2026 These are all examples of this regulatory logorrhea, showing that in France we have a poetic rather than strategic vision of the environment (Sylvain Pelletreau).<\/p>\n<p>The notion of the \u201coffence of ecocide\u201d is symptomatic of this relationship between political effectiveness and regulation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Energy and agriculture: two sectors seriously impacted by the drift in environmental law<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In a context of energy crisis, Christian Harbulot, Director of the School of Economic Warfare, returns to the issue of nuclear power. He deplores the lack of public statements by those most concerned\u2014mentioning the body of engineers in the nuclear industry\u2014during debates on France\u2019s nuclear policy. <\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cThey did not see this informational destabilization coming. How could an industry like France\u2019s have been weakened so much?\u201d Christian Harbulot<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The same applies to the agricultural and agri-food sector: \u201cit is a societal case that has not yet been fully grasped for what it represents,\u201d and its consequences will be dramatic, Christian Harbulot insists.<\/p>\n<p>For Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent, former executive at Elf Aquitaine and Gaz de France, the fundamental issue today is the difficulty for an industry to be able to do its job:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cThat is to say, there are people tasked with controlling you, and they are opposed to what you produce. One in two people within the DREAL (Regional Directorates for the Environment, Planning and Housing) wants production to stop,\u201d explains Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent, using the example of painting on metal.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The speakers mention the project to set up the Bridor plant (Le Duff Group) in Liffr\u00e9, which has been challenged and subject to appeals. Another example: the plastics industry. \u201cWith the AGEC law, they want to ban plastic, even though we are the world\u2019s third-largest plastic producer and production will double over the next five years, everywhere in the world,\u201d notes Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent. The former executive speaks of the \u201claw of 27\u201d: in other European Union countries, it takes 27 days between a company\u2019s decision to set up and authorization, whereas in France it takes 27 months. \u201cThe only solution is to move abroad.\u201d    <\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cIn France, we have a certain sympathy for revolutionary romanticism: we have a poetic vision of environmental law.\u201d Sylvain Pelletreau<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Justice system, state apparatus, political class: what responsibility?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In reality, is it not a question of abusive appeals? asks Pascal Perri. <\/p>\n<p>\u201cAn appeal is a legitimate means of contestation. It must exist,\u201d states Ma\u00eetre Pelletreau. \u201cThere are abusive appeals. And judges lack the time to deal with all appeals. We, as lawyers, sometimes receive responses from judges that we do not understand. It would also be wise to have judges specialized in environmental law. We would save time.\u201d <\/p>\n<p>What worries Sylvain Pelletreau \u201cis the response of some politicians today who, when too many appeals are filed, seek to silence those who file them.\u201d While the bill on renewable energies is being examined in Parliament, objections from regions are being heard more and more. \u201cAnd the Government is aware of it. It has even reduced avenues of appeal!\u201d (Sylvain Pelletreau). On the subject of energy, \u201cthere is a real contradiction currently coming to light for the Government and Parliament.\u201d  <\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cBut this law on wind turbines [among other things] will have no impact on the winters of 2022, 2023, 2024, \u2026 Wind and solar will not solve the energy problem. It is a lie, accepted by a large part of the press.\u201d Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Environmentalists\u2019 monopoly over environmental law and the absence of strong opposition in the industrial sector<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The state apparatus\u2019s timidity regarding public order, the opportunism of the French political class, and an industrial world unfortunately focused on its core business mean that this radical environmentalist threat is not being taken into account, notes the Director of the School of Economic Warfare.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cPeople are surprised by the term \u2018eco-terrorism\u2019. But it already existed against nuclear power plants,\u201d according to Christian Harbulot. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Environmental movements have benefited from the silence of representative bodies, Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent notes, but also from industrialists \u201cunable to explain simple things to the public\u201d. On this point, however, one must bear in mind the difficulty for industrialists to enter into conflict with a person who has both investigative power and sanctioning power, Sylvain Pelletreau specifies. <\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe have left the monopoly of making environmental law to radicals\u2026 There is no solid cross-cutting economic, social and environmental study to create intelligent law. Environmental law is made only in silos. It does not achieve its objective of protection.\u201d According to Laurent Cappelletti, we must work together towards an acceptable environmental law. The professor cites research on standard-setting that has identified the O.A.N.E process (Orchestration, Arbitration, Negotiation, Ethics). <\/p>\n<p><strong>Environmental demands vs vital needs: is a step back possible?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>According to Christian Harbulot, three factors can explain the interests of the radical movement:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>How can a form of protest evolve after a failure? (1980s) <\/li>\n<li>How can one live off a rent-seeking position? Some people from civil society do very well from it. <\/li>\n<li>How did factions emerge within the elite? At the \u00c9cole des Mines de Paris, for example, a group decided that the theme of the energy transition could be promising in terms of career opportunities. \u201cAnd this group positioned itself within the Ministry of Ecology and the CEA (French Alternative Energies and Atomic Energy Commission).\u201d  <\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cI would like to draw your attention to the notion of vital needs, which will become increasingly important in the years to come. What will tip things over are these survival issues. They will overwhelm environmental demands. We also note the radio silence of environmentalists on the return of questions about nuclear power.\u201d Christian Harbulot<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Before producing standards, we must therefore define our needs. This is Maslow\u2019s pyramid: starting again from fundamental needs. We cannot want to protect the environment without thinking about upstream needs and downstream consequences. Sylvain Pelletreau mentions the concept of environmental sovereignty: \u201cEverything must stem from the environment, but nothing from dogmatism.\u201d   <\/p>\n<p>For Pascal Perri, we must collectively acknowledge that we were wrong and accept a step back. We have enough examples to show the dramatic consequences of this excess of standards, Laurent Cappelletti adds. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Environmental law and economic growth?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Can we say that there is a change of course in France? And how is this issue addressed by neighbouring countries? What makes it so that in France we have such a polarized debate? Because in Germany, for example, environmentalists are in government, Pascal Perri notes. But they are pragmatic, replies Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent:    <\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cIn France, we are pursuing an emotional policy. Hence the necessary return of technical authority. We have one of the parliaments with the fewest technicians. Yet technical knowledge is a prerequisite for action.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWhen Madame Pannier-Runacher tells us that the Fessenheim plant was closed because maintenance was not satisfactory, she is making a complete technical error. Maintenance of a nuclear power plant is ensured until it is shut down.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>According to Sylvain Pelletreau, today \u201cwe are seen less as pro-industry\u201d. There are concrete examples showing that ecological radicalism leads to chaos, all across France. We must constantly repeat and educate so that we no longer have to deal with a Manichean vision of the bad guys and the good guys, but move towards a much more pragmatic vision. We must also define a direction: what do we want for the economy in France and, above all, for the population?   <\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe masks are coming off. We see it with the example of virtuous German wind turbines that operate thanks to gas and coal. I am counting above all on alternative employers\u2019 movements.\u201d (Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent) <\/p>\n<p>We must integrate the making of environmental law into a systemic and transdisciplinary vision, and not leave environmental law to environmentalists alone. (Laurent Cappelletti) <\/p>\n<p>We must ask ourselves the question: \u201chow do we produce knowledge?\u201d so that the answer is heard by the population. Build networks, combine skills. Industrialists must join forces to produce this knowledge and, above all, stop relying on instruments that no longer work, concludes Christian Harbulot.  <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"template":"","categorie-video--pod":[57],"class_list":["post-6508","video","type-video","status-publish","hentry","categorie-video--pod-conference"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law? - CR451<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law? - CR451\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Debate moderated by: Pascal Perri, economist and founder of Yes to innovation! Speakers: Laurent Cappelletti, Professor at CNAM, Director at the ISEOR Institute of Socio-Economics, Institut Sapiens expert Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent, former executive at Elf Aquitaine and Gaz de France, and specialist in energy issues Christian Harbulot, French strategist specializing in economic intelligence, Director [&hellip;]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"CR451\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"10 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/video\\\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/video\\\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\\\/\",\"name\":\"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law? - CR451\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2023-06-19T03:16:48+00:00\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/video\\\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/video\\\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/video\\\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Accueil\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/home\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/\",\"name\":\"CR451\",\"description\":\"Centre de recherche 451\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/cr451.fr\\\/en\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law? - CR451","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law? - CR451","og_description":"Debate moderated by: Pascal Perri, economist and founder of Yes to innovation! Speakers: Laurent Cappelletti, Professor at CNAM, Director at the ISEOR Institute of Socio-Economics, Institut Sapiens expert Lo\u00efk Le Floch Prigent, former executive at Elf Aquitaine and Gaz de France, and specialist in energy issues Christian Harbulot, French strategist specializing in economic intelligence, Director [&hellip;]","og_url":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/","og_site_name":"CR451","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Est. reading time":"10 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/","url":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/","name":"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law? - CR451","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/#website"},"datePublished":"2023-06-19T03:16:48+00:00","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/video\/webinar-are-we-witnessing-a-drift-in-environmental-law\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Accueil","item":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/home\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Webinar: Are we witnessing a drift in environmental law?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/#website","url":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/","name":"CR451","description":"Centre de recherche 451","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/video\/6508","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/video"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/video"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6508"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"categorie-video--pod","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cr451.fr\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categorie-video--pod?post=6508"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}